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The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:30 pm
Ohohoh~ here's the official beginning of the debate about the existence of God. (Go read The problem of God! [philosophy] if you haven't.) So, here's the epic intro. XD

God has been a concept that accompanied Human throughout history. Yet, in the contemporary time, more and more people stop believing in its existence. Science becomes the most convincing method for us Human to seek the truth of nature. With the religious power that falls in vain in many countries, the question of existence of God is now one of the most unsolvable global mystery for philosophers.

... not sure about that information, though... -_-lll

I, the animator of this debate, shall hereby announce you the question of our... amateur debate!

Is believing in a divine a quality or a weakness of humanity?


Last edited by evil-mashimaro on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:47 pm
Believing is a divine is definitely a characteristic of human nature. There are statistical evidence that people all over the world believe in a God, a divine, or something superior and beyond nature. What seems most like a weakness to humanity is more likely to be the interpretation of the concept of God. As we know from what we discuss earlier (in The problem of God! [philosophy]), many philosophers and religious interpret wrongly this idea. This leads to more wrong interpretations and, as the amount of false information accumulate, when Galileo found the truth about the planets, people would start thinking that everything in religion is wrong. However, the real idea behind the believe of God is supposed to be something more spiritual than just 'pure physical knowledge'.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:54 pm
I agree with Bishop of the East. The Greek philosophers, Aristotle, Plato, and companies all skewed up the real idea of God. They are the one who mislead religion and their future generation. For hundreds of years, Europe stayed blinded by religion and their rules that sacred scriptures are the ultimate truth, while Asian countries were developing wonders with natural resources. (That was just a small off-topic. HEHE)
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:59 pm
If we think in the way of what ScrollingRabbit said, the belief of God becomes a weakness. Our hundreds years of blindness is caused by this belief. It wasn't God's fault, but the fault of misinterpretation which is cause by the obsession and dedication of the idea of the existence of a divine.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:08 pm
Misinterpretation is caused by translator, philosopher and other related and religious experts. It is not a direct consequence of the belief in the existence of a divine. Let consider another religion than Christianity, such as animism. How can you say that native american were blinded by their religion. They were expert of nature. Although they might not be advanced in science before, the fact that they were not communally absorbed in false information (such as the Earth was the center of the Universe) proofs that the belief in God is not what lead us to the false informations.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:10 pm
I might be fair to say that religious interpretation is dependent to the belief of a divine...
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:11 pm
ScrollingRabbit wrote:I might be fair to say that religious interpretation is dependent to the belief of a divine...
You agree with me or what? You just change your position. -_-
Stay with me; I'm a bishop! XD


Last edited by Bishop of the East on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:13 pm
I think it's hard to argue that religion did not retarded the advancement of science. But the idea behind religion is something positive. Whether it really did retarded science or not, it didn't retarded humanity.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:16 pm
leCOOKIEdelamort wrote:I think it's hard to argue that religion did not retarded the advancement of science. But the idea behind religion is something positive. Whether it really did retarded science or not, it didn't retarded humanity.
Religion or the belief in a divine? Notice there is a difference. People can be not religious and believe in God.

But don't you think that believing in something that might be a delusion is a weakness. First, you don't know if it's true or not. Second, you believe it just because thinking of it can bring you happiness, comfort or secure means that you are weak. In a more extreme way, it means that you cannot cope with and accept the life as the way it is, and thus you try to find something to distract/console you. So, you're weak.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:30 pm
But this is part of humanity! Human seek for happiness/comfort/consolation/security. And somehow we can manage to think of a divine being that is physically inexistent, and just by thinking of it, we can gain happiness/comfort/consolation/security. No need to be afraid solitude; isn't that great?
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:32 pm
What the hell is the question? I read it ten times and still don't understand. What is the damn difference between quality and weakness. For me, quality is like a characteristic and weakness in one moderately specific characteristic. So what are we supposed to argue?
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:38 pm
InfluenzaKiller wrote:What the hell is the question? I read it ten times and still don't understand. What is the damn difference between quality and weakness. For me, quality is like a characteristic and weakness in one moderately specific characteristic. So what are we supposed to argue?
No way! I thought the question was the best I could ever think of. Or maybe you're the only one who didn't understand.

Argue about whether the belief of a divine can retard humanity or it's a fundamental characteristic of what makes us human. So if it's a weakness implies that this belief is optional. If it's a quality (i.e.: a fundamental characteristic), it implies that it is a universal invariant belief and even if it retard humanity, we cannot escape from it.

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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:42 pm
Oh crap! Were we off the track? o_O

Ok, I think it is a universal invariant, because, as Bishop of the E. said, there are statistical evidences (we just don't know where to find them Laughing ). However, it retards humanity and there are historical data to prove it.

End of my argument. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:52 pm
I think we can step out from the argument of science improvement after the fall of the church. We can talk about the manipulation of social worker with religion. At some point during history, the church began telling that if they do good on Earth, they'll get rewarded by God once they go to heaven. Generally, this kind of manipulation applies to the social workers who were exploited during the industry revolution. Those workers believe that if they work hard and bear their sufferance in silence, they'll definitely be rewarded. As Marx said in 1844, religion is the "opium of the people."
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:01 pm
Indeed, that really retarded people's mind. But one can argue that industrial revolution enhance humanity because it improve the life of future generation. Thus, those social workers who were exploited were - sad indeed - but somewhat fundamental in human evolution. However, does this kind of human evolution means improvement for betterness? Not quite sure, because we see the result now; the environment is declining. But I don't know if we can say that it has a direct relationship with the belief in a divine.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:28 pm
Am I alone on the God's side? This is pathetic.

So, I think all this has no major relationship with the belief in a divine. First of all, there are variation of interpretations of the concept of God that we cannot deny, but that we let ouselves guided by them too much. It true that the church abused their power at some point during history. But that was political and economical propose. The pure basic idea of the existence of a divine are for spiritual propose. There is always those kind of confusion - like science that create nuclear bomb for military propose, but pure science is for intellectual purpose. Can you really say that science destroy humanity? No, and it's the same for religion. None can be absolute favourableness.

Second, the belief in a divine does not implies necessarily the belief of reward, heaven or hell. That are all related interpretations.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:33 pm
Sorry Bishop of the East, I thought I could support you longer. XD Let me do a second attempt.

Yeah, I agree with Bishop of the East, because since the belief in the existence of a divine is purely for spiritual purpose, just like science is for intellectual purpose, and so forth, we can say that this belief is necessary for humanity. It is a fundamental characteristic, because spiritual development is necessary for human.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:43 pm
Actually Bishop of the East, that was kind of agnostic or even atheist to say that religion and science is the same thing and the purpose of religion is purely for spirituality. I don't know if I misinterpret your argument or you mean that belief of God is just like any king of belief and nothing has absolute favorableness. So the belief in God's existence is just a tool for spiritual propose, and therefore God is something imagined by human, which is just a total emptiness.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:47 pm
Dear 11thAdept,
I don't know know how to manage to arrive to this conclusion. I never said that I was atheist or deist. Although my username is Bishop, but that doesn't mean anything.
Cheer!

Yeah, you are right, I do think that God is something imagined by human. But to believe in God is still a fundamental characteristic of humanity. Don't try to find hole in that argument! Haha
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:59 pm
What is the matter of our debate? Fundamental v.s. weakness? Aren't they the same bunk?
Human weakness is part of human quality. Even with the brief cover-up that you give, Evil-Mashimaro, nonsense is still written on this webpage.
Failed is this question.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:02 pm
KINGof♠ wrote:What is the matter of our debate? Fundamental v.s. weakness? Aren't they the same bunk?
Human weakness is part of human quality. Even with the brief cover-up that you give, Evil-Mashimaro, nonsense is still written on this webpage.
Failed is this question.
Man, speak English correctly, would ya?
What is this poetic way to start your (non-)argument? Just stick your argument in; it's a easy question, non?

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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:10 pm
I object!
God is no imaginary being owing to none valid proof of His nonexistence. Yet, neither it is correct to say that He exists. Thus, it makes the debate abstractly hard to continue.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:15 pm
Yeah, right. Get out of here! HEHE
Like I said, the belief of the existence of a divine is a weakness. You see how much trouble it cause to us? If we don't have this belief, then we don't have to have this painful debate! Mad
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:31 am
Some people, as strange as it seems, can't live on if they stop believing in God. If we assume this to be true in a general view of all human, the belief of the existence of God is necessary for humanity.
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Re: The problem of God! [debate I]

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